tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post6824592977741669590..comments2023-05-27T11:14:02.426-04:00Comments on Some Space to Think: Slop the TableAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14216103531396452644noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-74622725715290363622010-03-10T14:19:12.871-05:002010-03-10T14:19:12.871-05:00One of the strangest - and one of the most hilario...One of the strangest - and one of the most hilariously fun - games I've ever been in was the Star Wars game wherein only one member of the party could speak Basic. The rest of us <i>understood</i> Basic, but were from species that simply could not form the proper sounds.<br /><br />In another game, World of Darkness this time, we had one PC that was Polish by birth and raising. His second language was English. His third, apparently far down the list, was French - and we were in France, with the prevailing language of the party being French. In the tradition of <i>'Allo, 'Allo</i>, the player accented and mangled things he was saying, and it was a beautiful thing - he was thrillingly eloquent (if unintelligible to our PCs) in Polish, workman-like in English, and his French was (in his own words) "not... premium."Sarah Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08085093380428847252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-53086204742683302582010-02-25T21:43:13.466-05:002010-02-25T21:43:13.466-05:00Your second footnote echoes my own feelings, too.Your second footnote echoes my own feelings, too.Cam_Bankshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16162534181760938499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-34823385350155786122010-02-25T14:48:25.281-05:002010-02-25T14:48:25.281-05:00A short note. Language-as-skill works very well in...A short note. Language-as-skill works very well in WFRP2e where language (or any proficiency) is awarded as a result of career exposure and time spent doing a thing. I found use for skill checks in the efforts that someone was trying to mask (or alter) an accent, etc. This meant that in my Bretonnian game, the peasants could use their skill in <i>Speak Language: Breton</i> to talk like a noble and thus help carry off the ruse that they were themselves noble.ZeroGainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03122409469631926274noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-89552292529064536222010-02-25T13:31:30.271-05:002010-02-25T13:31:30.271-05:00One thing that always bugged me about most Runeque...One thing that always bugged me about most <i>Runequest</i> games was thar in almost every campaign I've seen, Tradetalk has become the equivalent of Common. [In my game it's represents the ability (a cult secret) of the Issaries cultist to use a trade argot that allows the cultist full use of his ability to bargain, but is of little utility outside of this (especially when discussing something that isn't physically present). There is no actual language.]<br /><br />Language is regional/cultural, and, especially in a fantasy campaign, most people won't have any need to learn a new language because they don't travel. And if they do linguistic boundaries tend to be very blurry. There were reasons that French developed to become the lingua franca of European nobility and diplomacy. Similarly religions are often united by a common language. That of their holy texts.<br /><br />And then you can add complications such as archaic forms of the language (Chaucer, anyone?), dialects and accents that need subtitles, and making language caste and rank dependant. Fun. [Didn't Dorothy L Sayers* once write a murder mystery based entirely on an individual in disguise using the wrong tense?]<br /><br />And finally I'd like to add that my old fantasy campaign had lots of language fun with regards to exploring the wilderness and encountering new peoples. Not only do you get the fun that explorers usually learn the name from their neighbours (who are also generally their neighbours/rivals [Eskimo/Inuit anyone?]), but you also tend to get a lot of landmarks that translate more accurately as "Mount I'ts A Mountain You Idiot." [In this game learning to speak just took time and someone to teach you, but I've always been a strong believer that the best way to learn a language is to drop someone in the middle of people using it.]Reverance Pavanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01217657347160811310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-26909995853891783862010-02-25T13:20:11.201-05:002010-02-25T13:20:11.201-05:00Oh, that's interesting enough I just might lif...Oh, that's interesting enough I just might lift it. Something like this: characters can quickly pick up 'Broken' versions of languages, enough to get by but with social skill penalties. Getting to the Accented and Native stages takes more work the PCs might end up never investing the time for.<br /><br />It helps though that there're one or two standard lingua franca spread out through any universes the PCs' home universe has significant contact with.<br /><br />In the end, I think I'll treat this as a 'dial' depending on player preference. If players want to deal more with the challenges of dealing with exotic cultures and languages, language rules come into play more. If they just want a inter-universe romp, that stuff gets more handwaved.<br /><br />Anyway, incompleteness is inevitable given that I don't plan to treat the assorted visitable locations as simple 'planets of hats', where you know how everyone will act because they all have the same culture. Surprises are inevitable, and I want to find ways to make that interesting but not too hard on the GM and players.Kaja Rainbowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06901395178227131094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-84306969968166535942010-02-25T12:42:37.637-05:002010-02-25T12:42:37.637-05:00I actually really like the way GURPS 4e handles th...I actually really like the way GURPS 4e handles this. (The 3e way was dreadful, falling right into the "trying to treat them like any other skill" trap, resulting in smart characters being able to speak a dozen languages better than native speakers with cursory effort.) It breaks languages down into None, Broken, Accented, and Native, which seem to be about the levels at which one can usefully roleplay a difference in language ability. And "Accented" seems in practice to basically mean "Native, but you can't successfully pass for a native when speaking."<br /><br />Since everyone starts at their own language at Native (barring special disadvantages), there's none of the oddness about how to handle people's own language abilities. And, heck, for people who don't want to play halfway stages in language (which I personally find fun, but they're not everyone's cup of tea), just don't buy a language until you have the points for at least Accented.<br /><br />I'm personally very fond of the way the system further allows to subdivide between spoken and written; I remember great scenes out of literature where two people who speak no common language end up communicating via written Latin. (And it's a cheaper route to "My scholar can translate all these ancient runes!") I suspect the D&D "You know a language or you don't, and there are only these set ones" is a lot more practical for most play, but I really enjoy the slight complexity available in the GURPS approach.Fadehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02298465378894972915noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-25440764121064381002010-02-25T11:51:36.969-05:002010-02-25T11:51:36.969-05:00Thanks for this post! I'm currently working on...Thanks for this post! I'm currently working on a setting with variant Fate 3 rules, and it seemed like languages might likely play a role due to the PCs being able to reach a massive (near-infinite) number of worlds.<br /><br />The trick will be giving players the impression that those worlds are so much more than the brief impressions the PCs'll be getting of them.<br /><br />Mind, I'm being generous enough with stunts that a character could conceivably pick up telepathy-type Stunts, making language less of an issue.<br /><br />Anyway, I was mainly just thinking of a "roll Society skill to see how long it takes you to learn the local language" (the customized skill list is a completely different topic). Said skill has many applications, so there's no 'character point' cost to learn languages, really. (Society is mostly the chunk of the Academics skill that I didn't split off into Psyche.)<br /><br />Lots of food for thought. If I ever get around to putting all this mess into a PDF as opposed to keeping it to my private games, what you said's definitely going into the GM advice section.Kaja Rainbowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06901395178227131094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-51976811805147102842010-02-25T10:24:53.384-05:002010-02-25T10:24:53.384-05:00Now you've got me thinking about languages in ...Now you've got me thinking about languages in my international supers game, and you've got me thinking that I only want it as a potential plot complication. I.e. everyone can understand everyone else...unless I want to introduce it (mechanically) as a problem.Matthew D. Gandyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10385705569087231697noreply@blogger.com