tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post2878447474323526457..comments2023-05-27T11:14:02.426-04:00Comments on Some Space to Think: 4 on 1Anonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14216103531396452644noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-46310343882429603032011-08-25T19:01:36.797-04:002011-08-25T19:01:36.797-04:00Your comment about Fight Prep rings true. I have p...Your comment about Fight Prep rings true. I have played with many gamers over the years in multiple systems where this has clearly been one of their favourite aspects of the game. It's not been something that I've been particularly fond of, so it has meant waiting for them to get ready while I make a cup of tea. No big deal in the end, it's just a different playing style. <br /><br />I think where the difference between AD&D and 4E come into play is that the same Fight Prep is not as straightforward in 4E and that has frustrated a lot of members of our gaming group. <br /><br />The thing that I do miss is the ability to use non-combat oriented spells in a fight. We have always had players in our game that would do strange things with Spider Climb, Web, Grease, etc in a combat. That kind of freedom to think outside of the box is not completely gone in 4E, it's just not as apparent or easy to pull off I feel.RupertGhttp://diceofdoom.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-56821082338703819472011-08-23T01:46:14.328-04:002011-08-23T01:46:14.328-04:00I don't miss the "buffing" angle of ...I don't miss the "buffing" angle of preparation. Adding bonuses to hit, damage, etc. was just very low on flavor, high on time consumption, and bad for balance. I do miss the preparatory spells that would provide tactical changes. Spells like Mass Fly, invis, veil... those added dynamic aspects to many otherwise dry encounters. In some ways 4E has made up for it - you get flashier powers and leaders have built-in instant buffing, but I miss the tactical changes that lasted as long as Mass Fly.Alphastreamhttp://community.wizards.com/alphastream1/blog/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-13751259625131491602011-08-22T18:35:31.265-04:002011-08-22T18:35:31.265-04:00Great post, Rob.
I think, for a lot of D&D pl...Great post, Rob.<br /><br />I think, for a lot of D&D players, getting into a "fight" was a sure sign that they had screwed up. All of that stuff that you're calling "pre-encounter prep" is what another group might have called the whole point of play. After all, you didn't get XP for winning encounters, you got it for looting the dungeon. 1e D&D (in some incarnations) was definitely not a combat game.<br /><br />(I realize you know this, I'm just feeling chatty, I guess :)<br /><br />Anyway, I agree that there are fun ways to add preparation and dirty tricks into 4e play. I look forward to your follow up post.John Harperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11804100598627834615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-7037996102993487502011-08-22T18:14:49.056-04:002011-08-22T18:14:49.056-04:00One of the things that always annoyed me about AD&...One of the things that always annoyed me about AD&D was that not every effect one encountered in an adventure could be replicated "by the rules" by the PCs.<br /><br />I was happy that this went away in 2e and was completely gone in 3e. So the fact that someone who serves the same role in 4e as a PC, but is an NPC, has a completely different character sheet bugs the living heck out of me.chattyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06539709430526111912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-43951984300188962022011-08-22T18:13:15.859-04:002011-08-22T18:13:15.859-04:00When I still lived in the Bay Area (*sniffle*), I ...When I still lived in the Bay Area (*sniffle*), I was in a long running D&D game that was sort of AD&D 1.5. It included tons of the late supplements and a few 2nd ed rules thrown in for ease of game play.<br /><br />Your observations are largely dead on. Fight prep COULD make encounters really easy. Unless the enemy likewise prepped or had the proper resistances. Magic resistance was nightmare to deal with as a Magic User for instance (I still contend that in practice, a properly equipped 15th level fighter would own a properly equipped 15th level magic user, even if the MU can kill lots more low level characters faster. But I digress). Haste was the killer app, though we DID play with the aging rules. Happily, most of the PCs were long lived (Amusingly, my character made friends with some Slaad, upon whom he had caste Haste to help them with some battle they were fighting for the fate of Limbo. From that day forward, Slaad would occasionally pop in to ask for a buff. And my "ask for" I mean "demand"). <br /><br />We TRY to do such prep in our 4e game, but no one knows much about anything, and nothing lasts more than a round, so it seldom works. I can't even figure out whether my character should be fighting minions, or actual monsters, or what heuristic I should use to tell me.<br /><br />One of the things I initially liked about 4e was the seemingly wacky variance in the sorts of powers different classes could throw around. I liked it because it was one of the aspects of 1e I particularly enjoyed. Unfortunately, further play, to me at least, revealed that a lot of these wacky aspects are just fiddly bits with different skins.chattyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06539709430526111912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-39018340625090827182011-08-22T14:43:21.378-04:002011-08-22T14:43:21.378-04:00One great thing you could do is give out an encoun...One great thing you could do is give out an encounter power to the player who does some great planning - a once per encounter perma-mark (-2 to hit), granting one player increased defenses during the battle, a modifier to a damage roll, etc. Additionally, you could also modify the stats of your monsters based on the pre-fight planning. If your plan is going to take them by surprise, reduce each of their defenses by one. These things don't have to be done beforehand either. It would be relatively easy to mod these on the fly.Mikenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-37045121067356398192011-08-22T13:30:12.133-04:002011-08-22T13:30:12.133-04:00One really simple way to reward pre-fight prep is ...One really simple way to reward pre-fight prep is to award a surprise round. A small skill challenge or expending of resources could give the PCs that small edge of surprise. Actually, I think a surprise round is more of an edge than we often give it credit for. On top of that (or in addition to it) you could also let the PCs see the battlefield before the fight starts, and let them place themselves wherever they want.Benoithttp://www.rovingbandofmisfits.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-46592436329325687442011-08-22T13:12:52.332-04:002011-08-22T13:12:52.332-04:00One thing that I do really miss from earlier editi...One thing that I do really miss from earlier editions of D&D is the pre-fight preparation. I do not, however, miss how much such preparations could dominate an encounter. I look forward to seeing your take on how to support pre-fight prep in 4e, Rob.Matthew Brennerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12683200714498415550noreply@blogger.com