tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post8508594820964582406..comments2023-05-27T11:14:02.426-04:00Comments on Some Space to Think: FreezeAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14216103531396452644noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-73776328646198444062010-07-26T20:11:40.353-04:002010-07-26T20:11:40.353-04:00Rob, might you consider writing up a version of th...Rob, might you consider writing up a version of this for the D&D website? I have no idea if you'd want to, or if they'd post it if you did, but if there was ever an audience that needed to hear this advice...<br /><br />Thank you so much for posting this. I think it'll improve the kind of player I am at the table. I was thinking about this post all week, and I figured I should comment and let you know.Pôl Jacksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12829715841878775387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-59439606044617143092010-07-26T15:29:50.589-04:002010-07-26T15:29:50.589-04:00Thank you for articulating this. This problem has ...Thank you for articulating this. This problem has gotten so bad for me that I rarely if ever play tabletops. It's odd, because it only happens in tabletops; I LARP extensively and not having the gap between my immediate perception and my abilities (being able to see the field, etc) makes it so I can just immediately react.<br /><br />It's gotten to the point in tabletops where I just have a 'default' action. "I shoot it." or "I hit it." or "I run." And I keep them in my head ready to whip out if I freeze just to stop all the tapping and the eye rolling.<br /><br />This problem is further compounded because I really have very little love for systems. I just don't. It's not my interest in a game, and when I do get all into a system, usually people don't like what I have to say anyway, because I try something people don't think is the "right" way to spend out a character. So my hatred of systems leads me to do something while everyone else is rolling; draw on a piece of paper, knit, write in a notebook. Otherwise I will die of boredom.<br /><br />So unfortunately people perceive my freeze as I wasn't paying attention. I was, I just don't need to know every nuanced piece of a roll. I don't. The freeze isn't that I don't know what's going on. It's that something more than simple reaction is being asked of me and I never expect that.<br /><br />It's something you never see in LARPs, because at worst, you can just run in the direction everyone else is running. But on a tabletop you have to ASK where everyone is running, and then you feel stupid, and then you freeze. <br /><br />Thank you for your advice here. I hope people take it to heart. I might even tabletop again.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04610123185235641411noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-16630566532826490482010-07-26T11:57:01.486-04:002010-07-26T11:57:01.486-04:00*sigh* I'm definitely one of those impatient p...*sigh* I'm definitely one of those impatient players. I like fast, cinematic games, and it's <i>so obnoxious</i> when anyone slows us down! *roar and fist shake*<br /><br />I'm not so bad as that, but I do tend to bring along a book to read through the slow spots that happen during any long-running campaign. Anything from someone figuring out their character sheet numbers again to taking five minutes to decide what to do on their round in combat. Reading in the middle of combat might be weird, but it beats sighing, finger-tapping, or starting a distracting side-conversation. If people seem to find the books rude, sometimes I'll use those down times as an excuse to get up and get a drink or make tea, while still keeping an eye on what's happening.<br /><br />It's easy for people standing by to get swept up in the moment and cheer on, toss ideas out to, or side-chatter around those who are freezing up on a decision. Even shouts of "Dude, I have no idea what I'd do there!" feel like being part of the team, but are probably just unhelpful noise.<br /><br />I don't agree with every point in this post, but I agreed with a whole lot less of it when I first read it an hour ago, so thank you for writing it. :-) I'll be much more watchful of ways I accidentally show my own impatient tendencies in the future.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09769040027070134039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-84564269848014619062010-07-25T15:45:51.422-04:002010-07-25T15:45:51.422-04:00As promised Narrative Control #45 just dropped. My...As promised Narrative Control #45 just dropped. My title? Freeze. <a href="http://narrativecontrol.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=633167" rel="nofollow">http://narrativecontrol.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=633167</a>Sean Nittnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14757914253483436212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-51840663383937567012010-07-25T15:44:45.179-04:002010-07-25T15:44:45.179-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Sean Nittnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14757914253483436212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-39640633219767652482010-07-25T15:43:33.318-04:002010-07-25T15:43:33.318-04:00@Number Ten Ox
Wow. Thanks a ton. That is a hu...@Number Ten Ox <br /><br />Wow. Thanks a ton. That is a huge compliment. Not only that the prep and style helped the game... but you just put me next to Judd! *awesome fan boy moment*<br /><br />I'm really glad the games rocked for you!Sean Nittnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14757914253483436212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-70407047575518658882010-07-21T20:20:18.015-04:002010-07-21T20:20:18.015-04:00@Sean,@Judd You two have GM'd a couple of my f...@Sean,@Judd You two have GM'd a couple of my favorite con game sessions (Sorcerer and Mouse Guard respectively), which are when I'm often freeze-prone. My experience in your games was most like my good improv theater experiences. (I froze in improv a lot too...) Right off the bat in your games, I wanted to have fun and bring my best to the table and your GMing (prep you had done beforehand and GMing at the table) was a big part of the reason why.Number Ten Oxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12002678928965243231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-26747505781611136852010-07-19T19:19:54.327-04:002010-07-19T19:19:54.327-04:00When this happens at the table, I like to gently p...When this happens at the table, I like to gently point them at something that might inspire them: Aspects, Beliefs, Keys, etc.<br /><br />Also, at times, I have offered to go to a different scene and come back to them, taking eyes and pressure off and giving them time to marinate in a healthy way, rather than stewing in pressure.Juddhttp://githyankidiaspora.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-50740573817009550692010-07-19T17:19:38.277-04:002010-07-19T17:19:38.277-04:00This is SO going to be the topic of Narrative Cont...This is SO going to be the topic of Narrative Control #45Sean Nittnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14757914253483436212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-8154527861186767142010-07-19T13:57:11.532-04:002010-07-19T13:57:11.532-04:00Had a feeling Taevin was at work there. We had ple...Had a feeling Taevin was at work there. We had plenty of Power Couple moments. :)Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08362641974657304051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-27170632049537375632010-07-19T13:55:49.992-04:002010-07-19T13:55:49.992-04:00@Fred It was almost a decade ago, but it stuck out...@Fred It was almost a decade ago, but it stuck out in my brain. This was the 3rd ed campaign. <br /><br />I was on the spot to propose our position to a potential ally. Thing is, this was Sheva's shtick (and why I will never play another socially slick character). It was reasonable that this be her moment of awesome. Except that Rob was GMing, which amounts to 'please be more adept on your verbal feet than Rob and good flipping luck with that'. Every other player sat back to watch, and several of them were heckling in good natured ways. I locked up and kind of just stared helplessly. I floundered around a bit, mid peanut gallery remarks, and then fumbled onto an idea (and I'm trying to remember it) and shoved it Tayven's (your) way. And you ran with it as if I had proposed an actual plan. <br /><br />We got the alliance (and I'm trying to remember WHICH alliance). The thing that stuck out for me was the 'yes AND' of your response.Deborah Donoghuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13757575115119206182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-63951973703983618612010-07-19T13:31:33.739-04:002010-07-19T13:31:33.739-04:00I definitely could learn to shut my pie hole as a ...I definitely could learn to shut my pie hole as a GM when faced with a reluctant or newbie player.Paul Weimerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02444942522624902562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-29140306353986963222010-07-19T13:04:53.362-04:002010-07-19T13:04:53.362-04:00@Deborah, heh, you're right. I don't remem...@Deborah, heh, you're right. I don't remember the incident. Can you gimme some specifics to jog my memory?<br /><br />The funny thing is I'm sitting here reading Rob's post and thinking, <i>crap, I so do not shut my pie hole</i>. I think I'm pretty good at the whole <i>back their play</i> thing -- that's what was going on in the situation you're describing, I'm betting -- but I am NOT good at sitting still or keeping my mouth shut. <br /><br />I have been learning, though, slowly, *how* to open my mouth. Rather than say "you should do X" type stuff outright, I just try to open the door a little: "if you want a suggestion, holler". If that gets any kind of action I'll usually follow it with a set of suggestions (which I suppose could emphasize <i>there are many right decisions here</i>). Most of this, I think, comes from looking at the table from a GM perspective of Discover What The Wacky Solution of the PCs Is And Roll With That No Matter What.Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08362641974657304051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-31577175014937965022010-07-19T12:59:57.025-04:002010-07-19T12:59:57.025-04:00Most of the time I've seen it happen is becaus...Most of the time I've seen it happen is because the gamemaster has put the spotlight on the player in question. And like a deer or kangaroo, the player simply freezes in the light.<br /><br />To stretch the metaphor to breaking point, a better approach is to have a fixed spotlight shining on the stage, and then invite the players to perform in it, so that they step into it, rather than you shine it on them. Your job then becomes one of ensuring that no player dominates the spotlight, and that all <i>can</i> (not must) have a turn in it.<br /><br />[Oh, and never let people criticise someone's choice. That leads to people starting to doubt themselves and they get trapped in double-think. As they say in the military, any decision is better than no decision.]<br /><br />I find that body language can be very useful in moderating player behaviour. After all, they are already looking toward you for direction, so it is insanely easy to set the appropriate cues. You'll find that by projecting an eagerness to hear from the less vocal players at the table that you will not only draw them into the game, but you'll also get the other players to listen silently as well. [Usually.]<br /><br />[The worst freeze I've had in one of my games was when the Engineering Officer asked the Captain what they should do in <i>Star Trek the RPG</i> and the player suddenly realised she was the focus of attention of a whole room of people...]Reverance Pavanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01217657347160811310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-63748133420364922442010-07-19T12:39:53.588-04:002010-07-19T12:39:53.588-04:00I think the other thing that contributes to freeze...I think the other thing that contributes to freeze is the size of the decision.<br /><br />Some games force bigger decisions than others.<br /><br />"I hit it with my axe" vs. "I hit it with my sword", isn't as likely to cause freeze compared with "There are five aspects on this scene, you could free-tag this one and this one". "The bad guy is monologuing, what do you do?"<br /><br />Or, "OK, it's your scene now, what do you want it to be? Who do you want in it?"Tim Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15636548887356044925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-85147123536114973522010-07-19T12:38:01.973-04:002010-07-19T12:38:01.973-04:00I've been the frozen player now and then. It&#...I've been the frozen player now and then. It's a pretty awful moment and it is compounded by the well intentioned suggestions pouring in from all sides. Even if one of the suggestions was shaping up in my own head, I feel that I can't accept it once it has been offered by another player who is just trying to help.<br /><br />Fred handled this really gracefully at one point. I tentatively started to suggest something, putting it out there as a question, but Fred treated it like a fully formed idea. He ran with it with enthusiasm. When it was tweaked along the way, it was done so in the way that any idea gets tweaked once it's out there. Suddenly, I felt brilliant and far more confident. Most importantly, I did not feel like a provisionally acceptable player, there as the GM's wife. I felt like I was part of the game in my own right. That was a great session - and the other players did not have to try to encourage me after that. Fred had done the trick, simply by acting as if I _didn't_ need help. (He probably doesn't even remember this, too.)<br /><br />The idea that you need help - that you're not as adept as the other folks at the table - is part of the problem. I don't think the well intentioned helpers look at it that way at all, but every idea they shove forward at you just reinforces the issue. They're not trying to be patronizing and, intellectually, I know that. Intellectually, I'm sure, they understand why I'm gritting my teeth and 'you patronizing bastard' is emanating in steam-shaped letters from my ears. <br /><br />I put it that way deliberately. I'm sure it seems harsh (because it is) and I apologize for that. I'm trying to convey the sheer frustrated dismay that goes through the mind (at least my mind) in the middle of those suggestions. The thought process is not . o O (Thank god someone told me how to think!). It's a lot closer to . o O (This sucks great big rotting donkey wang.)<br /><br />This is just my perspective from the freezing up spot. Other people may feel very differently and mileage may vary.Deborah Donoghuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13757575115119206182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-58364429634350949222010-07-19T12:17:40.041-04:002010-07-19T12:17:40.041-04:00@Darren:
"He's holding the group back/...@Darren: <br /><br /><i> "He's holding the group back/wasting our time." Even, "If he can't live up to the standards we set in this group, maybe he should find another group." </i><br /><br />... wwwwoooowwww. It's sort of stunning that anyone would say that of anybody. That's. Hunh. Wow. <br /><br />Ironically, it seems like this is exactly the kind of statement that a freezing player is dreading, and part of what might be making them freeze up. Man. I'm sorry.Deborah Donoghuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13757575115119206182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-5841092352667388952010-07-19T11:47:52.085-04:002010-07-19T11:47:52.085-04:00I've seen this happen at the table countless t...I've seen this happen at the table countless times over the years, and I feel that I usually handle it quite well (14 years of teaching experience helps)... except when that decision is taken out of my hands by asshats at the table. I've unfortunately experienced gamers with no patience for the freeze who try to take matters into their own hands and then when spoken to after the session, they defend their words and actions with things like, "He's holding the group back/wasting our time." Even, "If he can't live up to the standards we set in this group, maybe he should find another group." Honestly one of the reasons I'm not running a game right now.Darren G. Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13952304814980197542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-80793413576125620612010-07-19T11:46:00.290-04:002010-07-19T11:46:00.290-04:00Awesome article. Pretty much nails the feeling I ...Awesome article. Pretty much nails the feeling I have when I freeze as a player.<br /><br />In my case, I don't know if there's anything the other players or the GM can do to relieve the 'performance anxiety' part, since its all self-generated - they're already all pretty gracious and patient.<br /><br />I actually like having suggestions - my creativity works like fire where I'm good enough at generating fuel and heat. <br /><br />For the 'oxidant' part, it seems I rely more on the environment.Eric Maziadehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06564281251588492194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-53997103230992136482010-07-19T11:37:33.853-04:002010-07-19T11:37:33.853-04:00@Sarah, I know what you mean. I have yet to freeze...@Sarah, I know what you mean. I have yet to freeze as a GM, but I've frozen many times as a player. When I GM, I basically view my job as follows, I create the beginning of a story idea (a hook) and I ask my players to help me flesh it out.<br /><br />While I have ideas of where the story goes, my ideas are no more important than theirs. This means, that when I GM, I'm helping them tell a story and I can't really do anything wrong as all pathways through the story are equally valid.<br /><br />However, when I play, I feel tremendous amounts of performance anxiety. Only I get to say how my character feels or thinks and I feel the pressure from the rest of the group to do "the right thing" even though as a relatively new player, I often have no idea what that is.<br /><br />As Rob mentioned, the players then often want to tell me what the right thing is rather than help me understand the world so I can make those decisions for myself. At that point, I might as well just hand over my character sheet and let them play her since they obviously know her better than I do :)<br /><br />A big problem for me is that I still don't really understand how to role play as a player (I play 4e D&D). There are lots of guidelines like don't be a jerk and things like that, but since they aren't well-defined, it's hard to sift through that social element of the game.<br /><br />Add to that the fact I learn best by experimenting which means trial and error, and I just freeze up at the table. Since I know that I'm going to make mistakes that seem obvious to others, I'd rather not make any mistakes than suffer the loss of confidence from my fellow players.Sarah Darkmagichttp://www.sarahdarkmagic.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-69797321389731162762010-07-19T11:31:04.090-04:002010-07-19T11:31:04.090-04:00Thanks for writing about this topic. I've done...Thanks for writing about this topic. I've done it enough, I could probably write a book about freezing. I like your suggestions, particularly "saying yes (and)" to people's ideas. I get people throwing lots of ideas at me. Lately if I'm suffering brain freeze, I'm taking a suggestion I like most and running with it, not worrying as much that it's not mine. It seems better to keep things moving. I'm gradually freezing less as I learn how to have fun and not focus on "performing."Number Ten Oxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12002678928965243231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-63675964918365812322010-07-19T10:48:11.148-04:002010-07-19T10:48:11.148-04:00The worst part for me - and I'm a confirmed fr...The worst part for me - and I'm a confirmed freezer - is that I freeze in a very specific set of situations as a player (having a major solo speaking moment, in essence) but can handle it just fine as a GM.<br /><br />Go figure, right? It seems to work best if I just avoid playing the Face of the party.Sarahhttp://blog.emeraldsilver.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-46234124020774517552010-07-19T10:45:24.322-04:002010-07-19T10:45:24.322-04:00We were having problems with this just yesterday. ...We were having problems with this just yesterday. I think we didn't handle it _too_ badly, but I'm forwarding this post to the rest of the players (not the freezing guy) for future reference.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-539922904333127582010-07-19T10:33:45.170-04:002010-07-19T10:33:45.170-04:00More often than not, I find myself at a table with...More often than not, I find myself at a table with players who are awesome or just have that knack for knowing what to do, and I will freeze from time to time -- definitely a performance anxiety kinda thing. In one way or another, most of the folks I play with seem to have intuited your advice here, but it's really good to see it codified so clearly into 4 simple rules.cadorettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11180016760386493467noreply@blogger.com