tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post8130004762686612520..comments2023-05-27T11:14:02.426-04:00Comments on Some Space to Think: Story is not a Four Letter WordAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14216103531396452644noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-20386891667270093652010-07-14T21:16:35.941-04:002010-07-14T21:16:35.941-04:00@Stuart said: "There's no way around the ...@Stuart said: "There's no way around the GM needing to improvise details for the game world. In fact that's an important part of the experience. However I think the distinction is whether the world is shaping to the characters or the characters are exploring an impartial world."<br /><br />I'm really curious about what standards you use to define impartiality when you have to improvise those details.Leonard Balseranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-3718691972538952102010-07-14T11:39:44.539-04:002010-07-14T11:39:44.539-04:00Okay, I went for my morning walk and thought of a ...Okay, I went for my morning walk and thought of a recent situation in a game I was running that I thought "sucked" a bit. In our Ancient Academy game there was a room I described as being filled with cobwebs. I think the retainers were also spooked and refused to go first into the room. I thought this would be a pretty big clue to the players that there would be… yes… a big spider in the room.<br /><br />Unfortunately one of the players was quite cavalier about announcing: "fine I'll go into the room then" without saying anything about slowly, cautiously, with a torch, looking for monsters / spiders / UP, etc. So the big spider in the room got to roll for surprise… and the PC was surprised. And the spider got to roll to attack… and hit… and did enough damage to kill the PC… and poisoned him… and he failed his saving throw anyway.<br /><br />So one bad choice cascaded into that character dying. This was also my first time playing with this person, and I wasn't 100% sure how they'd handle character death. Fortunately he took it in stride and we've gamed together since.<br /><br />At the time I did feel that temptation to change things so the character wouldn't die… because I felt myself identifying with the heroes as well. That would have been a bad choice though, since another player had taken his 2 hit point character into melee with the undead and walked away from the battle when the zombie managed to roll a 1 for damage. This was very exciting for the group. The real risk of character death was important for the feel of the game we were running.<br /><br />What I've done though is taken that "less than optimal" situation in the game and thought about it since when designing scenarios. I want to make sure there are no further 1 bad choice = game over situations, and have done some tinkering with the rules to see if there are other ways for the players to use the system to mitigate that kind of situation as well.<br /><br />I'm glad I stuck to my guns and didn't switch things around behind the scenes though… even though it sort of "sucked" at the time. I think it needed to so that the "fun" part was more fun. :)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13457050225967190052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-50336027262361049232010-07-14T11:07:27.625-04:002010-07-14T11:07:27.625-04:00I hate pointing finger, and it wouldn't help m...I hate pointing finger, and it wouldn't help much because, as noted, suck is relative. If you've never had a written adventure fall short for you at the table, I am genuinely envious, and I understand much more why your take such a strict literalist stance.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14216103531396452644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-76220053206598166792010-07-14T11:01:41.861-04:002010-07-14T11:01:41.861-04:00Perhaps one of the reasons it's less likely to...Perhaps one of the reasons it's less likely to be an issue is the format of a dungeon/I.F. compartmentalizes things a bit. Unlike trying to plot out an overarching story you have things in discrete packages. If one package isn't as good as you'd hoped... it's not so bad, since you move onto the next one.<br /><br />Maybe if you could provide an example of something from a published adventure that you think "sucks" I could tell you what I'd do with it. :)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13457050225967190052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-46080639039216633622010-07-14T10:55:55.440-04:002010-07-14T10:55:55.440-04:00Sure, but I'm not worried about subjectivity -...Sure, but I'm not worried about subjectivity - just needs to suck for you and yours.<br /><br />I mean, if you have never overlooked a potential problem on a readthrough, or discovered that something worked out in play very differently than you read (or than you wrote) then I'm envious because you're either much luckier or much more thorough than I am (likely both!). But the question still stands: If it ever were to happen, and by happen I mean suck for you and yours, how would you deal with it?<br /><br />-Rob D.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14216103531396452644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-57222981529359952092010-07-14T10:46:15.256-04:002010-07-14T10:46:15.256-04:00I would either have written the adventure myself, ...I would either have written the adventure myself, or I'd have at least read through the adventure if it was written by someone else. If I thought anything "sucked" I'd have changed it before we sat down to play the game.<br /><br />Although, like "fun", I think "suck" is probably highly subjective. :)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13457050225967190052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-44891122766489962042010-07-14T10:43:03.922-04:002010-07-14T10:43:03.922-04:00@stuart Sure, it can happen in any game, but I'...@stuart Sure, it can happen in any game, but I'll reiterate the question, because I'm really curious. What do you do if the text sucks*? Since departing from the text is an option for me, I know what I'd do, and in fact I don't really see another out. So with that in mind, I'm really hoping to hear an alternate approach.<br /><br />* - Not important why it sucks, for purposes of this question. Just needs to suck for you and your table.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14216103531396452644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-69750903421702677282010-07-14T10:28:43.925-04:002010-07-14T10:28:43.925-04:00Where a disparity would exist, my hope would be to...<i>Where a disparity would exist, my hope would be to communicate about it rather than trying to "disguise" one mode of play as another through stealth.</i><br /><br />This is the best approach. I have no problem with people having different ideas about how to run an RPG -- but like you say trying to disguise one mode of play as another isn't good.<br /><br />There's no way around the GM needing to improvise details for the game world. In fact that's an important part of the experience. However I think the distinction is whether the world is shaping to the characters or the characters are exploring an impartial world. Again, I'm not advocating better/worse - but those are different sorts of experiences.<br /><br /><i>what I'm *really* curious about is what you do when the scenario simply just sucks, and you don't figure that out until you're in play.</i><br /><br />This can happen in any kind of game. Hopefully if you're experienced, or working with material from someone else who's experienced, this is less likely to happen. It's also dependent on your personal preferences. Some people like it when their game gets a bit zany/gonzo/silly as some group improv can tend to get, but for me that's kind of "sucking". Other people find a well structured and non-silly environment exploration scenario (whether dungeon or not) to "suck" because it's not producing the type of dramatic story they're looking for.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13457050225967190052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-18559759318945247352010-07-14T00:47:53.345-04:002010-07-14T00:47:53.345-04:00@Stuart said: "...the problem is that you'...@Stuart said: "...the problem is that you've changed something behind the scenes, and you're hoping the players don't notice."<br /><br />Why would I care if the players notice? Elements of the fiction in play are in negotiation during every moment of play, whether or not the participants are fully aware of it. Memory is inconsistent, and there are limitations to the variables that the human mind can keep in consideration. I think I'd rather want the players to know that I'm organically responding to things that viscerally stimulate them.<br /><br />But, my biases are pretty well documented, too. You're presenting the situation like I'm trying to pull a sleight of hand on my players. I'm presenting the situation like there's a unity of expectation. Where a disparity would exist, my hope would be to communicate about it rather than trying to "disguise" one mode of play as another through stealth.<br /><br />And you've already pointed out that such a group wouldn't be like the one you're talking about. So, yeah.<br /><br />Couple of interesting things flowing out of this:<br /><br />1.) The idea of "hard" boundaries existing regarding certain exploratory content and not others, and how you define those boundaries.<br /><br />2.) The question of what constitutes valid discovery where those boundaries exist. (About this: My assertion is that fully improvised details can satisfy an exploratory yearning, and if you examine play honestly, it actually happens all the time.)<br /><br />I'm curious for you to comment on those things. But what I'm *really* curious about is what you do when the scenario simply just sucks, and you don't figure that out until you're in play.Leonard Balseranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-65113222889140238392010-07-13T19:57:52.072-04:002010-07-13T19:57:52.072-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13457050225967190052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-63614512098944423602010-07-13T19:57:45.652-04:002010-07-13T19:57:45.652-04:00I think I am comfortable asserting that you can...<i>I think I am comfortable asserting that you can't make a choice more hollow when the choice is _already_ quite hollow, as most dungeon choices are. Is there something behind the door? I think the answer is "Does it matter?"</i><br /><br />We all have our preferences and think some things are more "fun" than others. Some players are more interested in interpersonal drama and their characters feelings, while others are more interested in the exploring and discovering the mysteries of the game world. So some choices might matter less to you than someone else and vice versa.<br /><br /><i>if the vampire is a villager (a more reasonable baseline than just pulling the idea out of the air) , why not decide it's a villager that the player's know or care about?</i><br /><br />Because it's contrived and suggests to the attentive player the game is more about improvisation than exploration and discovery.<br /><br /><i>If the purpose of the encounter is purely transitional I'd provide NPC's that are easily forgettable, but put an emphasis on the conflict they pose between themselves and the story element or conflict they are trying to pursue/resolve.</i><br /><br />Sure. That's a different kind of game. I'm not suggesting any sort of "one true way" at all - just that there are different approaches. :)<br /><br /><i>The question is not "What is behind door 1 and 2" but instead, provide a reason why they have the option in the first place. </i><br /><br />What makes a dungeon a good reference for this discussion is that the map of a dungeon adventure and the narrative map of a piece of interactive fiction are quite similar. You are being presented with a more limited number of choices than just "anything" and those choices lead you to different nodes in the dungeon/interactive-fiction.<br /><br />If you've designed a good dungeon/I.F. then you'll always be presenting the players with good choices… or doors. If you're looking down your nose at it, you've probably just been exposed to really poor examples - or genres you don't like.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13457050225967190052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-32372951143089777052010-07-13T17:58:06.539-04:002010-07-13T17:58:06.539-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.DicesMusehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02513834815497038116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-25053374315596787452010-07-13T17:58:06.540-04:002010-07-13T17:58:06.540-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.DicesMusehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02513834815497038116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-63876756335153379342010-07-13T17:57:26.238-04:002010-07-13T17:57:26.238-04:00With the Vampire Example though, why limit your ch...With the Vampire Example though, why limit your choices to just the most immediate thing. The questions I would ask myself for the story driven aspect are:<br /><br />What purpose does this encounter have in relation to the bigger picture?<br /><br />How important are the various NPC's in this encounter, and how significant of a tie will be needed to drive to the next story element and provide an entertaining experience?<br /><br />If the purpose of the encounter is purely transitional I'd provide NPC's that are easily forgettable, but put an emphasis on the conflict they pose between themselves and the story element or conflict they are trying to pursue/resolve.<br /><br />Mind you, if its part of a purely "POWER LEVEL!" experience, the encounter can simply be part of a set of encounters meant to remove resources before a final climactic element, or the climactic element itself.<br /><br />@Stuart As far as changing the game up a bit between Narrative Exploration and Collaborative Role playing, I find most of my games consist a little of both, where the world is something that I've pieced together, and part of the exploration is discovering has more to do with how each player will approach a conflict.<br /><br />It is not up to the GM to predict this, but instead provide a means of adapting the key elements that they need the players to get the information or resources they need to resolve the conflict the GM has provided to the players.<br /><br />If by means of trying to discover a lost treasure to rescue an entire civilization from destruction, you would have a number of options, some of the most prominent being as follows:<br /><br />> Random Roll Table for random encounters!<br />> Have key creatures you know are "Big bosses" that dominate the area<br />> Or have a history to each major and key playing creature<br /><br />The first option requires work on a random roll table, and having to keep track of a large number of creatures, most of which do nothing to drive the story, nor the exploration. Though if your just looking for more dice rolls on the GM's part then feel free.<br /><br />The big bosses would be something you can do with less rolling, and instead the players will use their skills to find, avoid, and/or kill said beasties to get to the final destination. This has some story potential, but the third option takes it to the next level.<br /><br />Instead of just each of them, you now have key players acting as a conflict, and one must use the local area or creatures in order to persuade, understand, and potentially gain a new ally towards gaining the resource needed for the artifact that will save the world.<br /><br />I find that in any case, story by no means limits the narrative exploration nor kills the railroading, but instead provides an infinite web of possibilities for options for the players, making it truly dynamic.<br /><br />The GM only needs a basic understanding of the system being used, and have access to benchmarks that can help determine whats balanced for the group and what "makes sense" for a creature or NPC. Special abilities can be as potently lethal or soft as the imagination allows.<br /><br />The question is not "What is behind door 1 and 2" but instead, provide a reason why they have the option in the first place. If the importance is to browse through a dungeon with random encounters, instead use the mental attributes of the party to determine the time that a group of those people would have to go through a maze, and have them encounter the denizens of the maze, using diplomacy and intimidation to get information, aid, or their combat abilities to go beyond this.<br /><br />Who knows, perhaps through the maze of doors one finds allies along their path who have been in the maze a much longer time?DicesMusehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02513834815497038116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-71190959842948121562010-07-13T17:16:21.119-04:002010-07-13T17:16:21.119-04:00(or put more briefly, I accept the case to not mak...(or put more briefly, I accept the case to not make changes that undermine player choices, but by accepting that, I am more concretely uncertain of the argument against changing things that _enhance_ player choices)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14216103531396452644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-77671711216262259652010-07-13T16:50:53.981-04:002010-07-13T16:50:53.981-04:00Lenny has pointed to something that may turn into ...Lenny has pointed to something that may turn into its own blog post - I think I am comfortable asserting that you can't make a choice more hollow when the choice is _already_ quite hollow, as most dungeon choices are. Is there something behind the door? I think the answer is "Does it matter?"<br /><br />I totally understand the idea that if the players choices will always lead them to the plot, that undermines a lot of things, but unless the choices are meaningful, there's nothing to undermine in the first place. <br /><br />---<br /><br />To come back to the vampire example, it might be more apt to say "if the vampire is a villager (a more reasonable baseline than just pulling the idea out of the air) , why not decide it's a villager that the player's know or care about?" <br /><br />To flesh out the question all the further, let's say that the text of the adventure says one of the three following things:<br /><br />1) The vampire is a villager<br />2) The vampire is bob, the baker (who the PCs have never met and who is nothing more than a name)<br />3) The Vampire is a villager, choose one the PCs have interacted with.<br /><br />Assume all circumstances otherwise being equal (including how reasonable it would be for any given villager to be there), I infer from your interpretational approach, that we could use the Barmaid in 2 or 3, but not 1, yes?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14216103531396452644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-45931881097422560992010-07-13T16:14:41.132-04:002010-07-13T16:14:41.132-04:00By contrast, let's look at your vampire exampl...<i>By contrast, let's look at your vampire example. Let's say I have reason to believe that there'd be a visceral charge to reincorporating the encounter with the barmaid from earlier in the session. So I make her the vampire.</i><br /><br />And it's now a different kind of game. While you're right that this stuff:<br /><br /><i>Does he try to save her soul? Does he bargain? Can he bring himself to destroy the beast? What will happen when he gets back to town and everyone's favorite barmaid is dead?</i><br /><br />…can make for more interesting character choices, the problem is that you've changed something behind the scenes, and you're hoping the players don't notice. But there's evidence left behind that they might pick up on. How did she wind up a vampire so quickly, and how is she boarded up in the dungeon already? Who boarded her up? Why were there no tracks in the hallway? You can try and cover those up with more improvisation… but it's like a crime scene. Depending on your players they might be onto you.<br /><br />It's probably something the players won't raise with you directly, but it'll be there in the back of their minds. You've given them clues that you're changing things behind the scenes which will increasingly affect how they interact with the game world from that point forward. I like to think of this as 'The Truman Show Effect'. It's actually a rather good movie with themes very relevant to this discussion. :)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13457050225967190052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-41313928079361508842010-07-13T15:58:46.440-04:002010-07-13T15:58:46.440-04:00@Stuart said: "The more you change things aft...@Stuart said: "The more you change things after the players start making choices or exploring the non-linear narrative the more those choices don't matter."<br /><br />I think limiting most of the examples to the layout of the dungeon is potentially muddling some of the ideas being presented.<br /><br />Or, to wit, if I'm a GM, and I offer my players the choice of two paths in a dungeon, and my plan is to narrate the next improvised situation I've come up with regardless of which way they go... well, you're right, that would mean the choice doesn't matter.<br /><br />In my book, that'd be a moment of poor GMing. Offering the players a choice that doesn't matter detracts from play. So there aren't two doors; there's one door, and that's the signal that this hallway is not where important decisions are to be made.<br /><br />By contrast, let's look at your vampire example. Let's say I have reason to believe that there'd be a visceral charge to reincorporating the encounter with the barmaid from earlier in the session. So I make her the vampire.<br /><br />I haven't taken any significance away from the player's choices in the encounter. In fact, it's probable I've enhanced it, because he has a previously established relationship to the NPC. <br /><br />Does he try to save her soul? Does he bargain? Can he bring himself to destroy the beast? What will happen when he gets back to town and everyone's favorite barmaid is dead? How can we say the player's choice here doesn't matter?<br /><br />So it's not always (and rather, I think seldom) true that the improvisational, dynamic approach removes the significance of their choices. It just changes where that significance lies in play.Leonard Balseranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-37673200262252506962010-07-13T15:11:49.788-04:002010-07-13T15:11:49.788-04:00I should mention one of the reasons I hate Heroque...I should mention one of the reasons I hate <i>Heroquest (v2)</i> is the assumption of narrative importance to the exemption of all else. Admittedly part of it is their fanaticism in support of "this bright new way of play," but if you base the difficulty the players face on the perceived narrative beat (for example), then the character's choices don't really matter.<br /><br />To borrow Stuart's example, as far as the game system is concerned it doesn't matter which door the players choose. They will encounter the same thing behind either of them. It may just be of a different colour.<br /><br />Even with no overall narrative destination, this takes a lot of the fun out of the game for me (both as player and referee).Reverance Pavanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01217657347160811310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-67120536496044907492010-07-13T15:00:41.495-04:002010-07-13T15:00:41.495-04:00@Rob: I have to respectfully disagree with you. W...@Rob: I have to respectfully disagree with you. Whilst tricks or oration and rhetoric are commonplace nowadays, storytelling (as a performance art) is sadly in abeyance.<br /><br />Even advertising copy is still thinking it terms of the complete text. We have 30 seconds to sell this after-shave. It must be succinct and persuasive. Good copy might leave you asking questions (such as "how is he on a horse"), but the design is still to get from A to B.<br /><br />Wheras proper oral storytelling adapts to the perceived desires of the audience. It is adaptive, and may end up travelling to C. Often the audience actually knows the stories as well as the storyteller, which increases the interaction. It is a thing of the moment; the journey rather than the destination. Example are the medieval mummer's plays. Or traditional children's pantomine.<br /><br />It's something we've lost in the main. We have an expectation to be passive observers of our entertainment. Consumers rather than producers (in the main). Our interaction with the media becomes that of the critic, analysing it's worth (in terms of its impact on us).<br /><br />But one of the great pleasures of role-playing games is that they bring back the audience as a participant. In a sense increasing the personal resonance of the story for us.*<br /><br />YMMV.<br /><br />[* Which is why RPG "war stories" are usually intensely personal. Usually, if we enjoy them, it is because they nostalgically shadow our own experiences.]Reverance Pavanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01217657347160811310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-72858636085533954232010-07-13T14:53:10.175-04:002010-07-13T14:53:10.175-04:00Let's say I'm asked (as a player) to choos...Let's say I'm asked (as a player) to choose between 2 or more options, let's say doors in a dungeon.<br /><br />Does something exist behind those doors before I make my choice? Or is my choice just a cue to the GM to narrate something new?<br /><br />Those are different types of gameplay. One is narrative virtual world exploration, the other is collaborative storytelling.<br /><br />If you consider the complexity of a dungeon or non-linear narrative, so much is dependent on early choices so that if you don't have most of it mapped out you're ending up swinging towards the 2nd style of gameplay (collaborative storytelling).<br /><br />The more you change things after the players start making choices or exploring the non-linear narrative the more those choices don't matter.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13457050225967190052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-72732223578388155892010-07-13T08:43:53.882-04:002010-07-13T08:43:53.882-04:00@stuart I feel like I have my finger on something,...@stuart I feel like I have my finger on something, so let me ask this; Is it safe to interpret this as "Material that's written down is set in stone, material that's left out is fair game" (once a session starts)?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14216103531396452644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-44056058636357972762010-07-12T17:22:10.127-04:002010-07-12T17:22:10.127-04:00Great post all around I would have to say myself, ...Great post all around I would have to say myself, though some of the comments added I'd have to really say I agree with as well, some more so than others.<br /><br />Primarily speaking, the whole concept of playing an RPG is for the Game Master who has a particular idea for a conflict that the players themselves must resolve. It is this conflict that drives the adventure, and it is an art in of itself that the Game Master collaborates with the players in order to tie everyone together in order to help them find a common purpose in the world created.<br /><br />Once the GM has pieced together the key points in an adventure, the element of Story Kicks in in a number of ways, and it is my thought that the players themselves can put together stories of their own creation as they play through the game.<br /><br />Taking these hints can really help drive the story, and if the GM is willing, can add to the excitement of the game as the players find out that one thing that they have been deriving is actually true, or that its partially true and there is some sinister twist, both of which are key elements of story.<br /><br />In any case, having railroads and fudge dice rolls are just a means for those people who prefer "safety rails" in their RPG's where its more of going from dungeon to dungeon hunting for loot. Its a conflict of "my wallet is empty and I need to fill it, and I'll take anything, even a dragon, to do it."<br /><br />It is my belief that when the Game Master puts in small hints of a story and starts developing a world beyond the simple safety net Role Playing that the game can truly take a new dimension, and doing so in such a way that increases the enjoyment of all the people involved.DicesMusehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02513834815497038116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-34753061055271812342010-07-12T16:36:22.475-04:002010-07-12T16:36:22.475-04:00Ok, by that article's definition's, a holl...<i>Ok, by that article's definition's, a hollow choice is one without consequences, so I'm not following your logic. It' snot like the only way a GM might might changes is t make things _easier_, and in fact, I think that's almost never the motive. </i><br /><br />I think fudging dice to remove the risk of characters dying is not very uncommon. Certainly when we discussed it on Twitter a number of people suggested they'd do as much.<br /><br /><i>Often, the GM may change things so as to make a player choice carry _more_ weight, or have more compelling consequences.</i><br /><br />Is there any way to predict this in advance? Again, it's not about good/bad but it does change the game into something quite different. It turns into collaborative storytelling rather than narrative world exploration.<br /><br />Keep in mind that the GM may only have notes on how things are setup and the execution is based on them as "exceptional game logic". An entire location might be described on the page with 2 sentences and it's the GMs job to turn that into 20 minutes of gameplay.<br /><br />For example if the 1st level PCs encounter a vampire in a boarded up crypt they might offer the fiend a deal and the Referee-GMs job is to improvise how the vampire reacts to that. Their job isn't to replace the vampire with an orc before the characters enter the room because the players failed to notice the door was boarded shut, covered in crosses and decorated with garlic. :)<br /><br />They also shouldn't make the Vampire into the barmaid one of the PCs took a liking to back in town. (OR if they do, understand that's a different type of game than the one I'm describing)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13457050225967190052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-53589406746343586832010-07-12T15:26:11.448-04:002010-07-12T15:26:11.448-04:00I mean no offense when I say, that is an arbitrary...<i>I mean no offense when I say, that is an arbitrary distinction.</i><br /><br />I disagree - I think it's a very important distinction. This is a good article on <a href="http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20040310/fullerton_01.shtml" rel="nofollow">improving player choices</a> and is relevant to designing and running RPG scenarios. If you are changing things behind the scenes after the player have made their choices you change them into Hollow decisions. This is not good game design. <br /><br /><i>(also, Making no assumptions about WHY the GM makes changes. Maybe it's story. Maybe he finds an error. Maybe he realizes something was a bad idea. Maybe a player's do just died and he realizes he really needs to remove the hellhound puppies. maybe his players are bored).</i><br /><br />This is the sort of thing that should be done between sessions, not during them. If something is outrageously wrong (why that would happen, I don't know) I think the GM should stop the game and discuss things with the players.<br /><br />Note: The GM doesn't need to remove the hellhound puppies… the players need to remove their characters from the vicinity of the hellhound puppies. :)<br /><br /><i>Is your desired gameplay closer to Arkham Horror? And if so, why not choose a game like Descent, which is much more on the game end of things?</i><br /><br />Descent is about combat. I like mystery, exploration, and suspense more than combat, which is why a game like Arkham Horror is more appealing than Descent. AH is limited though - there's only so many choices you can make, and only so much detail you can get from the game world. In an RPG the GM provides for greater scope of action and can provide more detail where needed. More than thinking of the GM as a super-render-engine think of them as super-game-logic.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13457050225967190052noreply@blogger.com