tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post7529607248095100632..comments2023-05-27T11:14:02.426-04:00Comments on Some Space to Think: Science of Sub-GenresAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14216103531396452644noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-63196061830277050432011-05-20T13:16:10.545-04:002011-05-20T13:16:10.545-04:00Reverance Pavane mentioned Firefly type literature...Reverance Pavane mentioned Firefly type literature that was "decidedly unserious". This makes me wonder if Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and books of that type might be lumped in with Firefly. Granted, comedy brings in some big changes, but I still see the group of misfits trying to get by there.Gokenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16731425203543925430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-28599992831082334192011-05-20T12:10:05.334-04:002011-05-20T12:10:05.334-04:00If you're looking for a good example of books ...If you're looking for a good example of books in the "Firefly" sub-genre, then I recommend Chris Wooding's <i>Retribution Falls</i> and its sequel, <i>Black Lung Captain</i>. They've been out for a while in the UK now, and I think they came to the US recently (at least, <i>Retribution Falls</i> did).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-88906041264452243452011-05-20T09:09:56.923-04:002011-05-20T09:09:56.923-04:00@Kent Honestly, because "Space Opera" st...@Kent Honestly, because "Space Opera" starts as many fights as "Science Fiction" if you try to pin it down. Also, Star Wars casts such a long shadow in that space that I find it hard to separate. <br /><br />@Paul, UD, Mrig & Emmet - You point to an interesting distinction between military play and Military sci fi fiction. It is entirely possible (and even kind of awesome) to play a unit. There might be some hierarchy (rank) but the group is the important thing. This works great for gaming, but it seems rare in the fiction, which is more often about the single brilliant commander and the people around him or her.<br /><br />@Rev I had the advantage of having his in the back of my mind when I talked about Traveller. I agree it's important, but how it's important is so weird that it's hard to pin down.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14216103531396452644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-27802533214987332382011-05-20T03:47:59.664-04:002011-05-20T03:47:59.664-04:00The small group struggling to get by is a reflecti...The small group struggling to get by is a reflection of the hardship of ... well, the hardship of name-your-hardship. Farscape does this too. This is pushed pretty hard in Diaspora and the before-the-most-recent, public-posted playtest for Vanguard.<br /><br />In my head, these are all Westerns, which I know comes with a huge amount of baggage and sub-genres itself that I'm not qualified to talk about, but the trope of the drifters trying to make do, halfway between highwaymen and normal joes. We played Traveller more as this than the military SF.<br /><br />Thinking more about Traveller, why isn't Space Opera mentioned as a primary SF genre? Fading Suns has a special place in my heart.Kent Jenkinsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-42123000818265912052011-05-19T23:34:40.158-04:002011-05-19T23:34:40.158-04:00I think the "Firefly"/Traveller sub-genr...I think the "Firefly"/Traveller sub-genre is best termed either the Cross-genre or Adventure SF.<br /><br />I lean towards Cross-genre. I mean, Firefly is really sci-fi + western. There's a heck of a lot of sci-if + fantasy out there, as well - "Lord of Light", Pern, Darkover...Sarahhttp://blog.emeraldsilver.com/index.php/esgames/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-38137365651281589502011-05-19T20:15:40.401-04:002011-05-19T20:15:40.401-04:00A few random thoughts:
I call the Firefly model &...A few random thoughts:<br /><br />I call the Firefly model "Ports of Call" in my head. Aside from sounding like "Points of Light," it captures the idea of "the crew makes port, has an adventure, and gets into their spaceship and flies off to the next port."<br /><br />At an event at Endgame recently, one GM suggested that the players in milSF should play on two levels. In character, they play in the chain of command. However, important command decisions are made "off screen" by the table as a whole and given to the player of The CO to implement in character.<br /><br />To tie the two together, I've been reading the Black Company books, and it occurs to me that a SF version of the Company wouldn't be that hard to do.Uncle Darkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15153259977898899885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-61334355854450100982011-05-19T18:04:57.094-04:002011-05-19T18:04:57.094-04:00Robotech is a military RPG, we rarely played the m...Robotech is a military RPG, we rarely played the more structured mil aspect of it, preferring the wandering warrior of Invid Invasion to Macross or Southern Cross.<br /><br />I think thats where I get my idea of how the military Sci-Fi is played. Give the players a very wide berth to go out and explore. I'll usually make their commanding officer an NPC and make them as hands off as is needed for the players to take the spotlight.<br /><br />I'm shamed to plug it (I'm not big on self promotion but it's often necessary), but The Artifact is mostly mil science fiction and I deal with the issue of how to handle commanding officers and understanding the command structure.Emmetthttp://www.theartifact.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-12331311425212173012011-05-19T16:57:20.386-04:002011-05-19T16:57:20.386-04:00The "Firefly genre" is (depending on emp...The "Firefly genre" is (depending on emphasis) the company of freelancers or the squad of mercenaries.<br /><br />For what it's worth, the folks I've seen really grooving mil-sf rpgs have been playing squads operating more or less on their own, far forward of armies.Mrigashirshahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04330755833005126267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-44711618278542951342011-05-19T15:32:31.448-04:002011-05-19T15:32:31.448-04:00Cyberpunk: I've always found it quite amusing ...<b>Cyberpunk:</b> I've always found it quite amusing that the idea of cyberpsychosis was invented as an artificial limitation for <i>Cyberpunk</i> characters, but was such a good idea it was heavily adopted by later authors working in the genre and became a fairly standard trope in the genre.<br /><br /><b>Military SF:</b> The difference between a civilian and a soldier generally exceeds any other differences in genre, and that's something most gamers don't grok that well.<br /><br />For example, <i>Twilight:2000</i> makes a quite usable military RPG, but in order to do so successfully it must first postulate a complete breakdown of command authority and logistics.<br /><br />Most authors are quite adept at borrowing the tropes of the genre, but they don't really understand the fundamentals involved, unless they have actually served, which often makes their work (whilst highly enjoyable in some cases), rather inauthentic. At least to my mind.<br /><br />It doesn't help in the RPG experience that a fundamental requirement of military weaponry is to kill or incapacitate the other guy, and we can presume that in the future this capability only gets better. Which since the characters are quite likely to <i>be</i> the other guys means that you have to shift the emphasis of the game away from actual combat for it to be generally believable. {space fantasy, like <i>Star Wars</i> on the other hand...]<br /><br /><b>Third Genre:</b> <i>McLendon's Syndrome</i> (and it's sequel, <i>The VMR Theory</i>) by Robert Frezza, immediately comes to mind. Although it is decidedly unserious in outlook. There have been others, but mainly short fiction featuring the scrappy independents coming up against the corporate fat cats who use their political and legal acumen to screw the small guy. Which really only gives fodder for the single story. Either that or the crew discover a fortune and leave the old world behind. For some reason, struggling to meet the mortgage payments isn't generally all that sexy to write about.<br /><br />The again, to return to my first comment, Joss has previously commented that some of the ideas behind <i>Firefly</i> were actually based on a half-remembered <i>Traveller</i> game from his youth.Reverance Pavanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01217657347160811310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-57761611146115774922011-05-19T11:48:36.512-04:002011-05-19T11:48:36.512-04:00"The Commander problem" is a problem in ..."The Commander problem" is a problem in games where the players are intended to cooperate. Who gets to be in charge? How does the GM and other players deal with a spotlight hog? For military SF games, this is extremely acute, but a game with a group of niche PCs, such as the Firefly model, its less of a problem.Paul Weimerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02444942522624902562noreply@blogger.com