tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post4589837456411592247..comments2023-05-27T11:14:02.426-04:00Comments on Some Space to Think: NonadvancementAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14216103531396452644noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-5296977734760081252011-02-15T19:48:39.389-05:002011-02-15T19:48:39.389-05:00While I think a GM could help unlock the character...While I think a GM could help unlock the character sheet during the course of the game, I would argue that it's pretty unlikely that a person brand new to the game/system will know how. And I worry that's the problem sometimes with games where one doesn't follow a pre-written adventure, it's a lot harder to teach new GMs these tricks. I wonder if recorded sessions, maybe even with video, would help.SarahDarkmagichttp://www.sarahdarkmagic.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-78031125388515192362011-02-15T10:19:16.171-05:002011-02-15T10:19:16.171-05:00As you say at the beginning of the post, this '...As you say at the beginning of the post, this 'problem' is only a problem if the game has lots of fiddly bits that provide exceptions to the rules. Alternative approaches are to either have customisations that are base purely on their desciptions (such as Traits in DitV), or mechanics that apply identically across all situations (such as Stunts in Diaspora).<br /><br />But it's interesting that you pick out the difference between the graduated exposure of the <i>player</i> to the mechanics of the game, in contrast to the "zero to hero" progression of PCs.Neil Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02914689913080648405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-47483106754117387472011-02-15T09:24:41.995-05:002011-02-15T09:24:41.995-05:00I think this is an interesting idea, but one that ...I think this is an interesting idea, but one that can easily be done by the GM.<br /><br />Using your video game example, at least the non MMO one, the general understanding is that your character has near their full range of abilities in the start, but the game is introducing them to you one aspect at a time. So you start off with "move around", then graduate to "jump across this gap", "shoot that guy", "defensive roll out of the way", etc, etc<br /><br />In a new session a GM can do this, just as easily with opening up the character's sheet little by little as the game goes on, and players really looking for this could have the GM handle the mechanics of their character - based off an outline they provided perhaps.<br /><br />The only real change is time spent looking through the book to decide what talents and abilities you want now, as opposed to doing it every couple sessions as you get new abilities that you'd normally have at character creation.A.L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/05306497273874881493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-331673220532753212011-02-14T20:19:28.165-05:002011-02-14T20:19:28.165-05:00@Troy Heh. You have hit upon exactly the segue int...@Troy Heh. You have hit upon exactly the segue into tomorrow's post.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14216103531396452644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-2440812856408123452011-02-14T12:20:49.329-05:002011-02-14T12:20:49.329-05:00Heya,
One of the problems of comparing a video ga...Heya,<br /><br />One of the problems of comparing a video game, especially a MMORPG to an RPG in this respect is the tendency for players to create and then discard a number of characters before finally settling on the one they're willing to play for a while. This is especially true for MMORPGs.<br /><br />When trying a video game for the first time, players frequently make mistakes in assigning points, choosing class/race combos, or leveling up advancement trees. So they ditch the character and start over. WoW is especially susceptible to this since leveling is so easy there.<br /><br />However, when it comes to tabletop RPGs, switching out a bunch of characters at the beginning of play can cause a lot of social conflict. The others don't want to wait on you to make your new guy. The GM doesn't want to shoehorn your new character into the campaign over and over. Plus, the player constantly changing characters quickly gets the reputation of a ditherer and might not be invited back.<br /><br />I'm not sure there's yet been a good way to solve the problem you identify. I wish there was, though.<br /><br />Peace,<br /><br />-TroyTroy_Costisickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15025106072717054363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-59174020061638538252011-02-14T12:19:51.962-05:002011-02-14T12:19:51.962-05:00I second Cam's comment; it seems like Leverage...I second Cam's comment; it seems like <em>Leverage</em> already does this. I made the my character for our upcoming game in a moment, simply by deciding two things. The recruitment job will motivate the rest.<br /><br />Greg's kinda right, too, though, certainly for some games—it's worth it to sit and let a character brew. This only works when the system has a tight coupling between narrative logic and game function, though. I think part of the dilemma you're discussing is motivated by people worrying that the "fiddly bits" they choose will not function as they say on the tin.<br /><br />As a final point, there's a great line in <em>Fiasco</em>: "Now is the time to get it into focus, because leaving things to be fleshed out in play weakens them." I've been trying to figure out how generally applicable this is. An early RPG design project of mine fell flat in part because we left too much to be defined in play. So, there's a balance to strike.Kithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02540697795553677511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-348519347504441022011-02-14T10:46:04.264-05:002011-02-14T10:46:04.264-05:00I think the Recruitment Job actually tackles this ...I think the Recruitment Job actually tackles this idea in a sense, giving chargen a sense of actual gameplay and not having the players fill in all of the gaps. I've heard of people expanding on it even more, actually, with only the Attributes and Roles settled going in and all Distinctions, Specialties, and Talents left to arise during play.Cam_Bankshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16162534181760938499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1678761812929125529.post-21199415610287245432011-02-14T10:34:21.283-05:002011-02-14T10:34:21.283-05:00I think a problem is that there is a definite &quo...I think a problem is that there is a definite "pre-thinking" stage to an RPG that is largely absent from video games.<br /><br />You may pick up a book, have a character concept in mind for several months, finally get to play and really be familiar with the rules. And you can read RPG rules ahead of time in a way that gives a lot more insight than reading a video game manual (especially now that they have stripped those down to the nub).<br /><br />Someone can sit down to the table with a really coherent idea of how their character is going to shape up over the course of play. That is less likely to be true in video games.<br /><br />I agree with a lot of the spirit of the post though. I have been wondering a lot about advancement lately since I have been dabbling in the OSR where advancement is much slower than I am used to.Pontifexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01761338487255048337noreply@blogger.com